Fluoride Varnish in 2026: Modern Prevention Through Proven Science

Caries is the number one disease that humans suffer from. And we have something in our toolkit, varnishes at the heart of it, that is tried and true and is able to prevent caries. Welcome to Austin, Texas, and welcome to the Dr. Phil Klein Dental Podcast. I think we can all agree that fluoride varnish is one of the most common preventive treatments we provide in dentistry, yet many of us may not fully appreciate the science behind what happens after that small brush of varnish is applied to the tooth surface. In this episode, we take a closer look at the chemistry and clinical impact of fluoride varnish and how it acts as a sustained fluoride delivery system. how it helps shift the balance from demineralization toward remineralization, and why its role in minimally invasive dentistry is more important than ever. We'll also discuss common application misconceptions, updated post-treatment recommendations, and practical strategies for helping patients understand the value of this simple but powerful preventive tool. Our guest is Kayla Aamoth, a registered dental hygienist since 2014, and she currently holds a full-time assistant professor position at the Fones School of Dental Hygiene, and that's spelled F-O-N-E-S. A little information about that school, it was named after Fones, who lived between 1869 and 1938. He was a Connecticut dentist, widely regarded as the founder of the dental hygiene profession. And in 1913, he established the world's first dental school for dental hygienists, now known as the Fones School of Dental Hygiene. And that is where Kayla teaches. She is passionate about improving access to care and has spent much of her career in pediatrics and academia. Before we get started, I'd like to thank all of you for tuning in. If you're enjoying the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and even better, leave a review. By doing so, you're not only showing support for what we do here, but your reviews are instrumental in getting more dental professionals to listen and benefit from our content. We really do appreciate it. Kayla, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks for having me. So I think most of our listeners here today understand that every single day, teeth undergo two competing processes. Demineralization, where acids from bacterial metabolism dissolve calcium and phosphate from enamel. And then we have remineralization, where saliva facilitates the replacement of those lost minerals. Now, fluoride plays a big role here, which is the central point of our discussion today, specifically fluoride varnish. Fluoride especially has the ability to dramatically shift this balance towards remineralization. And we're going to be talking about that in this podcast. And it does this when calcium and phosphate are available in saliva. So saliva is our friend, especially if it has lots of calcium and phosphate available. One of the things that is really special about fluoride is that it accelerates the formation of new mineral crystals within early carious lesions, like white spots. We see that all the time after ortho. It can actually reverse the early disease process. And these crystals that fluoride forms, fluorapatite, are larger. They're more stable and more resistant to future acid attacks than what Mother Nature gave us, which was hydroxyapatite crystals. So with that quick summary, when we say protecting the tooth, what is actually happening on a molecular level? And why does the formation of fluorapatite matter so much in terms of prevention and clinical dentistry? So the transition from our natural enamel structure, which is mostly hydroxyapatite, to the fluorapatite gives us one really important prevention, and that's its ability to resist that acid attack. So it's critical pH. literally completely changes. It goes from having a pH of 5.5 being critical, which is reached very easily after we've eaten or drinking anything, to now that critical pH has dropped down in a positive way to about 4.5. So that's a significant difference. That's the difference between our root and our enamel structure. That difference is going to allow us to protect that tooth so much better. So that fluorapatite is more resistant. Which is very important in these high-risk patients, right? They have a diet of very highly acidic drinks, highly acidic food. Just one can of soda can really create an acidic environment. I don't remember what the pH of typical soda is. Do you know that number? Off the top of my head, some are as low as like 2.3. And even some of the sugar-free versions of things that are not soda, like Powerade or Gatorade Zero, are that low. Without getting too deep into the chemistry, two fluoride ions are replacing two hydroxyl groups to form fluorapatite. And that combination, that molecular configuration, increases the resistance not only to an acid attack, but it also helps reduce the acidity produced from streptococcus mutans by affecting glycolysis, the mechanism in which it metabolizes nutrients and it gives off acid. So by slowing that down kind of indirectly, it's antibacterial and also it slows down the metabolism of the destructive bacteria that produce acid. Let me ask you this. One of the biggest concepts in modern dentistry is shifting from repairing disease to preventing and reversing it. Where does fluoride varnish fit into this philosophy of minimally invasive dentistry, especially when it comes to early carious lesions? Fluoride has been... the heart of it for longer than we're even maybe willing to realize. So it was such a critical part of public health when fluoride became a part of our water, became part of a standard dental visit, especially as a hygienist. Our bread and butter is the public health side and the prevention side of things. It shouldn't be a subject that we're afraid to talk about. It really is something that's made a huge difference in a public health crisis. People are keeping their teeth for decades longer. Caries is the number one disease that humans suffer from. And we have something in our toolkit that is tried and true, varnishes at the heart of it, and is able to prevent. carries. Even when we're starting to see the introduction of other things like the silver diamine fluoride being used with wonderful results, fluoride varnish is still a part of that modality as well. Do you recommend using fluoride varnish on every patient rather than just high risk patients? I feel very lucky that I have gotten to practice in a perfect bubble, so to speak. I've worked in peds for about a decade and fluoride is a covered benefit. So there's not typically any conversation regarding like money exchanged or finances or concerns about why we're shying away. I get the occasional parent that's concerned and wants to talk about it. And I've got even fewer that are opposed to it. But on the whole, I've been able to. apply fluoride to practically every patient that I see. And now at the university that I work at, it's part of our standard hygiene appointment as well. So really almost everybody I've seen in the last 10 years has had fluoride varnish. So before becoming an assistant professor at phones, you were a hygienist at a strictly a pedo practice. I'm a full-time professor now, but my... my practice that I was a part of prior to teaching was in peds. Yeah, it was kids. So, but if you have root exposure on an older patient, fluoride varnish can be effective on dentin too. And people don't realize that. Yeah. Tell us about that, how it actually affects the dentin as far as hypersensitivity and protection against acid attacks. Yeah. So the patients that we see with exposed root surfaces, that root surface, as we mentioned a moment ago, is much more susceptible to the acid attacks that are happening in our mouth. And recession and root surface exposure is something that many people have. So I would argue that there are many people out there that are high risk. which justifies varnish for all, essentially. But on a microscopic level, the dentinal tubules are those little porosities, those openings in our teeth. And when that fluoride varnish is applied to those openings, that precipitation that's happening... on a molecular level is blocking those immediately. And from there, when the varnish is holding them in place, it's able to continue to allow time for the chemical reaction and that conversion from the hydroxyapatite to the fluorapatite to really give it the lattice structure that it needs to stay in place. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how fluoride varnish works. I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but fluoride creates this reservoir. on the enamel. And the reservoir is very, very important because it's essentially made up of, as you know, calcium fluoride, which is immediately actually produced or created right after the varnish is applied. So as soon as that hygienist puts the varnish on, you have a reservoir that's sticking to the tooth that's in like this globule form of calcium fluoride. So when that kid knocks down a can of soda pop, We know how acidic that is. What's great is that calcium fluoride reservoir breaks up. We get these fluoride ions that are free to do their thing, which is to remineralize the enamel by replacing the hydroxyl group with a fluoride ion to form fluorapatite crystal. And we already talked about the benefits of those crystals. They're much hardier. They're larger. They're more resistant. Like you said, they don't break down until a pH of, what'd you say, 4.5? Yeah, 4.5 roughly. Right, versus hydroxyapatite at 5.5. So this is a remarkable mechanism that keeps on giving because it's not something that just occurs afterwards. And it keeps giving for weeks and months for some patients. So it's not so fast that it's, nope, next day our treatment's over, we're done, we're finished. It's something that has created that structure now for months in between your appointments. Right. So how often do you replace fluoride varnish, knowing that it does work over time and assuming that the patient doesn't do anything abrasive to the teeth after you apply for the first, I don't know, four hours. We'll talk about what your recommendations are to the patient when they get this treatment. But assuming they're doing everything right and assuming it was applied correctly, how often do you bring them in to put on fluoride varnish again and reapply to the same surface of the teeth? For an average patient like myself, twice a year is typically appropriate. For a patient who is periodontally involved, who has lots of restorations, who has a high acidic diet, a high sugar diet, incipient lesions, exposed root structure, xerostomia from medications, any number of health conditions that can contribute to xerostomia. it's more appropriate to do it more often if it's required. I've had pediatric patients that come in with incipient lesions and we have a treatment approach where placing SDF and varnish is being applied over that SDF at that localized site. They have it done ideally two times within six months, sometimes as many as four times a year. And I've seen really amazing things happen where... I know anecdotally speaking, we can't say, okay, we've reversed a cavity entirely. But the radiographs of these patients would indicate otherwise. Yeah, no, I want to hear more about how you use STF with fluoride varnish because I haven't heard much about that. I know that STF by itself, leaving it on affected dentin, in other words, not to peel off all that. dentin that's affected, but just take the mushy infected dentin off and then put the SDF on and the remineralization seems to be pretty good. Now you're saying, or you tell us, how do you clinically integrate both fluoride varnish and SDF? How do you do that? So on an appointment where I take a radiograph, I see a child that has those interproximal incipient lesions and they're nowhere close to the age of exfoliation. I often use... tufted floss, where I floss Interprox to the areas that are of concern. I take the SDF, I dot it on either side, floss it through back and forth, remove the floss, and then I take the varnish as I would normally, because this is usually following a hygiene appointment, and apply it everywhere, but also over that site. With the thought process being that I don't want the SDF to dissolve very quickly in saliva, and I don't want it to wash away, and I'd like to keep... of that kind of suspended and locked in in that nice little varnish reservoir for as long as possible, which can be a challenge for anybody, but especially for children. Is that something you picked up at the pedo practice you worked at, or is that based on some evidence-based articles that you've read? Great question. So picked up in the pedo practice for sure, but something that the pediatric dentist that I worked under had been investigating amongst. both herself and her peers and colleagues that were in PEDS as well. Did you ever have some sort of kind of a longitudinal study? I'm not trying to pry here for evidence-based stuff, but did you keep track of these patients where you did it just with the SDF and then you did it with both and you saw a difference? You know what? It would have been wonderful had we done one. The answer to that question is probably not. No. Yeah, the answer is no. But the results that we saw were wonderful. But it made you feel good. It made you feel good. Sure did. And if we were to pull, if we were to audit all the charts for all the kids that we've treated that way and looked at the bite wings of the pre and the bite wings of the post, it's pretty incredible. We saw some really wonderful things. Yeah. No, listen, I think it's fantastic. First of all, using fluoride varnish is a major benefit to the patient, especially a child, especially with an erupting tooth. I mean, right. You can do it as the teeth are erupting and you know how carries susceptible kids are as their teeth are coming in. You could use it on primary teeth. Now, when you put this varnish on, I spoke to one dental hygienist and she just puts it on the buckle surfaces and swipes it across the arches. You know, the idea is to have the fluoride varnish reservoir available on the tooth so that when it's needed, it flows into the saliva, grabs the calcium and phosphate and deposits itself where it's needed. It doesn't need to be fully covering the whole tooth. Is that correct? My argument for that would say, sure, it's offering a reservoir. And certainly there's been plenty of times where I take varnish and I slap it on my glove and I do a quick finger swipe for a pediatric patient if they're restless or noncompliant. And I'm satisfied with that application. It's on their teeth. Fantastic. I think in an ideal world, we've got patients that are probably cooperative enough where we can take that extra 30 seconds. to make sure that we have really applied it the correct way. Because in a perfect world, we're applying it to all surfaces on a bendy brush thinly to make sure that compliance is there. It's not applied too thickly. It's not globbing off. They're not trying to remove it prematurely because it's uncomfortable. And it's a little harder to finesse the fluoride on when it's finger swiped. I certainly am guilty of that practice many a times, especially with pediatric patients. Yeah, it's certainly better than nothing, no treatment at all. So the ideal treatment, let's talk about the ideal product, not only the product itself, but how it's packaged, the delivery of the material to the tooth and the clinical aspects of what you need to do to prepare the tooth. Because there's some misconceptions about you need to have the tooth totally dry. You need to put it on really thick. What's the latest and the greatest as far as? someone like you who's done this God knows how many times, what are you seeing success with and what is your regimen? We know at this point that Fluoride is hydrophilic. It used to be the thought that once upon a time, that tooth needed to be bone dry like you were placing a sealant, and that was going to be how varnishes worked. And it's very possible that prior to my time in the profession, that's what the first varnish marketed itself as such. But the evidence shows otherwise now. So you can have a patient kind of suck the air through their teeth. You can do a very quick dry, a little gauze wipe, just to make sure that... not so moist that it's not actually having a chance to really adhere um if you have a little bit of saliva you've got no issue getting that fluoride varnish on um Is it preferred to have a little moisture on the tooth rather than dry? Yeah, I would say for patient comfort, not only, but for the actual product itself. Like I said, the fluoride is hydrophilic, so it doesn't mind having a little bit of moisture. It's able to be soluble in that saliva, and we're prompting that chemical reaction. Either way. So not a huge issue. So you put it on with a bender brush, which comes with, I know you're a big fan of fluoridose. Yes. Yep. We use that at the university that I work at. Yeah. What's good about that? What are you looking for in a fluoride varnish where fluoridose meets that criteria? Ideally, we want something that's sodium fluoride, 5%, which it meets the criteria. We want something that's easy to use, something that doesn't feel like grainy, something that tastes good. These are really the complaints that the feedback that we get from our patients. So I think it kind of ticks all those boxes. The Bender Brush. is great because it's already included in the reservoir so the nice part of that and especially when i have students that are applying fluoride for like literally the first time to somebody's mouth and they don't realize that brushes bend and i'm watching them try to struggle to get the linguals with a straight brush it's like The tiny adjustment of being able to reach over and grab their bender brush and bend it and see like, okay, try it now on the linguals. And they're like, wow, this is so much easier. Those are nice moments. Yeah, that was a great invention by that company, Centrix. Yeah, I mean, something so simple with a... that brush where you can bend it, custom bend it where it doesn't break. Probably trillions of them have been used in the dental profession over the years. Watch their minds be blown as they realize how easy that feels. Yeah, I knew the founder of that company, Dr. Dragon. There's actually a flavor named after him. I don't know if it's Dragon Berry or something, but Dr. Dragon was the founder of Centrix that makes this. And he was a phenomenal guy. Phenomenally brilliant guy and such a nice guy. And we miss him. He passed away a couple of years ago. So let's talk about the actual application. You use the bender brush. You put a thin coat on because you don't need much. And you do all the teeth surfaces. Personally, with my students, I still aim to make sure that they've got a swipe. across the buckles, a swipe across the occlusals, a swipe across the linguals. They bend that brush to get the linguals a little bit better. It takes all of, you know, three seconds in its totality to get all the surfaces. So why not? Why not spend those extra six, seven seconds to get the fluoride on? Absolutely. And what are the instructions that you give the patient? Now, if it's a kid who's unable to really understand what's going on, you'll be talking to the parents or whoever's taking care of the child. But what are the post-application instructions that you give to the patient? So the nice thing is I all... will always tell students, especially default to your package instructions, default to your package instructions, because there are slight differences between manufacturers of fluoride about time for efficacy and how long they want that to actually stay on there undisturbed. There's like most of them say, hey, you can eat and drink right away. You don't want to brush or floss for several hours and good luck. Have a good day. Try to stick to softer, normal temperature foods if you can. That's usually how I summarize it. Every product's a little bit different. So the key thing here is versus what used to be instructed to the patient is that it's not so much that you can't eat or drink for four or five hours. It's that you don't want to abrade the varnish off of the tooth for four or five hours. So therefore, you could eat something that's not abrasive. You could have some... guess you can have some soup or something soft, but I guess it's recommended to avoid a bag of ranch-flavored corn nuts or a couple of candy apples. I've tested this theory because I've wanted to see, okay, what happens if I don't follow these instructions when I've applied the fluoride on myself? Because we tell the patients, stick to soft, normal temperature foods, avoid alcohol. So for example, like chewing gum immediately pulls it right off my tooth. Hot foods kind of melt that varnish rosin. Okay, so soup, soup, it's got to be room temperature. Yeah, we're going to toss soup, unless we're talking like a cold summer soup. Right. All right, so we'll stick to gazpacho. It melts that rosin, so it doesn't really give it a chance to firm up, which our saliva is obviously working to firm it up, but when it's too warm and it's not just 98.5 degrees in your mouth. it melts it anything super super crunchy so like hard tortilla chips types of things. I haven't seen so much of an issue with the hard food selection. It's more the hot food, the chewing gum for those who are 21 plus or prefer mouth rinse, the alcohol and saying, okay, don't go and have a glass of wine after this or go rinse with your Listerine mouth rinse that contains alcohol after this because that will also dissolve it. So the instructions are clear. The key thing is putting a thin layer on and you want to get them back twice a year unless they're high risk. Yeah, if I've got patients with incipient lesions that are being addressed actively with... what we were talking about prior with things like the SDF or more fluoride applications to address those spots. Certainly we want them in more often four times a year. Or patients who are coming in with like regular periodontal maintenance or scaling and root planings where we've really got exposed root surface or, you know, concerns where we're seeing recession or things that we are actively monitoring more regularly is appropriate. At any time we are polishing a tooth and removing. that acquired pellicle, it's appropriate. There's no reason that most people would not be considered high risk. Like we said, caries is the number one disease of human beings. And our modern diet is just like, it's crazy. The minute you eat or drink anything, we're under that acid attack right away. I mean, there's a great doctor who teaches a lot, Dr. Brian Novy. And he says one of the best things you can do for your patient is fluoride varnish, is to create that reservoir of fluoride. and have it working for you all the time, especially if you, like you said, if you diligently reapply it twice a year. Now, do you prescribe fluoride toothpaste, like 5,000 parts per million fluoride toothpaste, in addition to fluoride varnish on some of your patients? Certainly. In pediatrics, all the time. We have patients who are in orthodontic appliances and those white spot lesions are nasty and they happen so regularly. And it's such a shame to have a beautiful, like young adolescent that just got their braces off and they're aligned and they're feeling so good about it. And their parents look at their teeth and like, what are these? horrible looking spots everywhere. So we try to make sure anybody who's in active appliances is using the Prevident 5000 or ClinPro or whatever their choice of product is for the 5000 parts per million fluoride, at least at night. Right. So that combination of varnish on there plus the professionally prescribed toothpaste, which is 5000 parts per million, the varnish I think is 22,000 parts per million. Almost 23,000. I think it's 22,600. Regular toothpaste, I think, is a thousand parts per million if you buy a fluoride toothpaste. Yeah. So what is your response to the parents who have read in a lot of the media that fluoride is toxic and fluoride causes cancer? And then you send the kid home with a prescription to buy a fluoride toothpaste and then you're putting fluoride varnish on, which has, you know. a pretty strong load of fluoride in it, although very little of that, and there's plenty of evidence to show that, gets absorbed systemically, that topical fluoride. They're not eating the stuff. What's your response to the patient who really is very fearful of fluoride for her child or his child? I love this question because I get asked this question every day of my career. I have a few strategies of approaching this. The first strategy is I always want to know where people are coming from. Are they just genuinely uninformed? They have no clue about fluoride. They're curious. They want to know because that's a different approach than the parent who is like. Absolutely not. This is a deadly neurotoxin. When I have those patients, I still try to put the framework of saying, okay, I hear your words. I hear what you're coming from. We might disagree on these subjects. I would argue that any of the major minerals become neurotoxins at incorrect levels. That's supported by evidence and data. So calcium at incorrect levels, phosphorus at incorrect levels, manganese at incorrect levels are... considered neurotoxic. Anything in incorrect dose is a problem for our body. We don't want too much water. We don't want too much salt. We need just the right amount to keep things in balance, right? So I try to get at least the groundwork laid for hearing where they're coming from, trying to figure out what our next approach is. For the parents that are just genuinely uninformed, great. We've got an opening to talk about it. Fluoride is a mineral that exists in our planet. in our soil, just like any other mineral, just like calcium, just like phosphate, all of the things that we need in our body to function. And the evidence is not that we're just applying this for ha -has. We're applying this because it legitimately is creating a chemical reaction on your tooth structure that is making your tooth so much less susceptible to a cavity. And it's your choice. Nobody's going to force you to do these things. But if the approach is a lifetime of... versus a 10 second application of something that's going to aid. I think most people are open to hearing those conversations and having a conversation about it as the provider. I want it to feel like open dialogue. I don't want it to feel like a judgment zone. But we also as the professional are who they're going to for advice. So, you know, they might get their information off of. TikTok or Facebook and a video that they saw. And they're allowed to think what they would like to think, but it is still my job as the paid professional that went to school for several years to learn about these things, to be able to help convey that information. Yeah, no, I think that was very well said. And, you know, when you eat a can of sardines, you're getting... heavy metals. When you eat chocolate, depending on where that chocolate was harvested from, what the soil was like, you're getting heavy metals. It's a little bit more difficult to deal with the patient that says, listen, my kid is drinking water and they're getting fluoride from water. Why do they need this? Because now this is extra fluoride that is beyond what's recommended by our municipality and they believe, you know, they think the government knows everything. So they go by what the government says. I would rather listen to you, the dental hygienist. But what's your answer to that when they think they're getting adequate supply of fluoride from the water? Yeah, this is where I usually find my common ground, even with the patients who are vehemently opposed to fluoride. I understand that in some communities, water is fluoridated and that's our city water typically. I live in an area where, yes, there's some city water, but there's also plenty of wells that exist. And so there are plenty of patients that see us and know off the top of their head, oh. I'm on well water, I get no fluoride. I also talk to them about the halo effect. And so we talk about, yes, they're ingesting food that's been grown in areas that has been watered with water that's fluoridated. So there is that trickle down effect of fluoride, even if I'm not ingesting it in my water, or even if I am ingesting it in my water, that can be evidence that we're at least getting it from some sources. I would rather us take it out of the water entirely, completely, and have zero water fluoridation and know that everybody's going to be compliant with the topical fluoride because the topical is really where the bread and butter is. Now, the only downside of that is... Yeah, it puts it to rest. It puts their concerns... Well, I know, but the downside of that is there are a lot of people that don't have access to people like you. And the only place they would get it would be from drinking water. But, you know, in an ideal world, if everybody could go to see a dentist... but unfortunately they don't, everybody doesn't have that opportunity and that privilege, then what you're saying makes total sense. Get it out of the water because the comparison between how much fluoride you're going to get from fluoride varnish versus the water, it would just take that argument off the table. And I would argue that the systemic is really only making an impact during in utero or in early stages as the tooth bud. So there's so it's just much less effective. It's still it's still one of the best public health progress forward things that we've done in many, many decades. But it's still not it's not enough. Right. It's not doing well. No, that's a good point. We didn't have the science in the 70s and 80s of the fluoride varnish that we have now. So no, no question about it. And for governmental decisions to take place where they change these things, it's like, you know, turning around the Titanic. Absolutely. You just, it's a very slow process. I didn't mean to use the word Titanic in a negative way. Another sensitive subject. Yeah, we know what happened to that. So I think Kayla, it's clear from this conversation, the benefits of using fluoride varnish and your enthusiasm, both in the operatory and also on this podcast clearly shows. your dedication and belief in in treating patients in a in a preventative way where you can actually stop or even reverse incipient carries which is just so important in this profession. Just curious, as we wrap up this podcast, what got you so motivated to be so excited about Floride Varnish? Was it a mentor that you had in school? I feel very fortunate that I have early memories of like swish and spit programs and myself in school. And I always had crazy amounts of cavities. My mom had crazy amounts of cavities. So it's... I've always been a little bit of a dental nerd and being able to advocate and give patients information, especially with the background in pediatrics, I feel that I've been able to be in this like perfect cocoon of a world where insurance isn't an issue and I just kind of get to do top treatment all of the time, whatever's best for the patient. And then same thing in transitioning to academia, like I haven't had some of those barriers. I feel very fortunate and very grateful that I have. practiced in a way that's allowed me to avoid some of those bureaucracy things and just have been able to say, here's the best course of treatment and let's move forward with best course of treatment. And I've received very little pushback from my patients, mostly because we can sit and have a conversation about it. But just being able to see in real time the impact that we've made on kids. I've taught public health before and being able to see the impact that we make when we do these missions. for our free dental clinics or when I take students out to see people in the public who don't have access to dental care. It's such a small, easy thing. It's portable. It's I can bring it along. You can slap it on with a gloved finger if you have to. Accessibility is there for everybody. What you're saying is so true. And you're also emphasizing the fact that being a health care provider. is so satisfying to your soul. I mean, you are a fulfilled, happy person because you have the ability and the knowledge to help other people, even at a very young age, that literally could change the course of their life because if they're treated with something as simple as fluoridose, which I know is a great product, but it's, you know, it's a fluoride varnish. It's not... not shooting something up to the moon and putting satellites in so we can get Starlink internet. We're putting, you know, I happen to use Starlink, so I like Starlink. Elon Musk will be happy when people hear this. Shameless, shameless plug for you. Right. He actually lives in Austin, Texas. But that's so funny. Yeah. But the point is, it's not a complicated product, but beyond the actual product itself, you're the one that has to convince the patient's parents or the whoever the patient is, the benefit of. applying this and how it can actually change the course of their dental path where they don't get into this cycle you know the cycle of doom where they continue to have dental care because we're always treating the problem you're actually in many cases reversing the problem or preventing it from ever happening in the first place and that's the power of what you're doing and Again, education is key. Education's key. We can talk them through those carries process. We can educate them on what's happening on a molecular level. People can usually grasp these things. Knowledge is power. Once they're informed, knowledge is power. Any dentist or any dental hygienist that's listening to this podcast has to realize that they have the capability of changing someone's life. And it's not something to be. looked at lightly i mean it's a it's a real privilege to be able to do that and i can see in your face i know it's an audio podcast but there's satisfaction and happiness in you because you have the capability of doing that which is um you're blessed and it's it's a really nice thing to see anyway um kayla it's been a pleasure talking to you i hope that our listeners tomorrow if they don't have fluoride varnish in that practice They go to the dental practice owner and said, hey, you need to listen to this podcast. Yeah, it's time. Kayla said it's time. Listen, keep up the great work. We're very happy to have you. And we'll have you on the show again. Thank you so much, Kayla. Thank you, Dr. Klein. It was nice talking with you.