Do Dentists Really Need to Advertise? A Practical Look at ROI

I want to make sure we're setting realistic goals here. So 50 bucks a day in advertising, do you think you're going to get one patient, two patients, three patients? Like the average cost to generate one patient in short-term marketing is between $150 to $400 per patient. So spending 50 bucks a day, it's not realistic. So we have to make sure we're setting realistic goals in terms of budget. how much money you're wanting to spend because if the budget for something like Google Ads is not big enough, like if you're spending $1,000 or $500, it's not even worth it, right? Like you're better off spending that money on a different mode of advertising that will generate better results over a longer period of time. Welcome to Austin, Texas, and welcome to the Phil Klein Dental Podcast. So the question for this episode is, do dental offices really need to advertise? And if so, how do you know if your efforts are actually paying off? We'll talk about how many new patients you should reasonably expect each month without any advertising, and how many more will come through the door if you do. We'll answer some more questions like how to determine which type of advertising is best for your practice. Is it digital, print, social media? or perhaps local outreach. We'll also break down the difference between short-term and long-term advertising strategies and how to tell if you're throwing money into a marketing black hole. Plus, we'll answer a key question that often gets overlooked. How accountable should your staff be when it comes to the leads generated from your advertising initiatives? And if you've ever felt unsure about your marketing ROI or wondered whether it's time to make a change, stay tuned. our guest is Brandon Bosch president and founder of dr marketing he is a certified marketing expert in google and meta advertising and he works specifically with dental practices you can find Brandon by visiting his website drmarketing.io Before we bring in our guest, I do want to say that if you're enjoying these episodes and want to support the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You'll be the first to know about our new releases and our entire production team will really appreciate it. Brandon, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks, Phil. Glad to be here. So let's start off with a fairly straightforward question. How essential is advertising to a dental practice? And let's take into consideration the fact that one example would be an office that's very well established. They've been around a long time. Their chairs are booked up weeks in advance. Great word of mouth, great reputation. Then on the other side of the coin, you have the new dentist or an affiliate who's coming into a new practice and they need to get the word out. and they're willing to spend some money on advertising and so forth. In general, is advertising part and parcel of a successful dental practice? It can be. It can be. Some very successful dentists that we work with do hardly any advertising just because of the reputation that they've built within their local community. Now, mind you, the advertising that they do is vastly different than other advertisers or other dental practices. So just as an example, we work with a few offices where, let's just say they're pediatric offices, where they do a lot of mommy and me shows, working with Montessori schools and whatnot, where it's more community outreach events rather than other forms of advertising, like traditional forms of like digital marketing. Just because an office wants to spend five, six, seven, 10, 20, $30,000 a month in advertising doesn't necessarily mean that they're successful. It just means that they have a vast marketing budget. Now, mind you, historically, the more money you spend in advertising means that you are making money, which means you are successful. So for those dental practices that are looking to advertise, I assume there's a certain percentage of their top line revenue that they would allocate towards the advertising budget. What is that between 2% and 10%? The percentage that we usually go off of is between 1% to 4%. 10% is very high to spend on advertising, even doctor marketing. I think our annual budget for advertising is about 7%, 7.5%. But again, we're a marketing agency that... It's very different, but the average would be between 1% to 4%. 1% or less if you are booked six months in advance, you don't have an associate, you have three operatories, and even all your hygiene is booked out, right? Or you're about to sell the office and retire, in which case you're going to be spending less money. You're going to be spending more money, 4% or more, if you do just hire an associate or their schedule is only booked a week in advance or your hygiene is not really that booked. out or you need specific types of patients. And so it really depends on how much you want to grow, right? Because if you're making a million, let's just say a million dollars a year. which the average dental office makes about close to about 850, 875. You're talking about revenue? Revenue, revenue, gross sales, gross sales, gross sales. So the average office, I think, makes about 875. I'd have to go back and look at the numbers, but I think it's around there. Let's take a million dollars just for sake of argument. That would be between $10,000 to $40,000 a year. That's what your budget would be based off of your gross sales. And so that's a budget of between about $900. $800 to about $3,500 a month is what you should be spending. Where do you spend that? Well, that's what our job is to figure out how to effectively spend that budget. But that's not to say that that is the cap, right? You can absolutely spend more. Like let's say you're a brand new dental practice. You have no money. You're going to be spending infinity percent because you have nothing coming in, right? So you have to have an appropriate budget based on what your goals are. So if you have aggressive growth goals, just set a budget that is realistic to your growth goals, but also not risky enough where you're going to be panicking every month trying to make your bottom dollar. What do you see as the average typical? growth of a healthy dental practice a family practice and then we can get into what advertising can do to improve that the average office i think has between three and four operatories uh so let's just say they go into that they have a thousand active patients active patients meaning within the last two years uh now we also have to account for attrition because patients will leave they'll die they'll change offices they'll they'll move for one reason or another and so if we just if we went into this thinking all right you have four operatories you have a thousand active patients you've been around for five years you're getting You know, the average office will get 10 to 15 patients without lifting a finger when it comes to marketing. That's just how it works. They just get 10 to 15 because of the signage, because of referrals, because of one reason or another. The average dentist, not specialist, the average dentist will get between 10 and 15 new patients every month without doing a lick of marketing. And how many are they losing? How many they lose each month? Yeah, they'll lose anywhere between three and seven patients a month. Okay, so they're plus eight. That's the goal, right? That's the goal. And so if we take the averages, right, it's probably six to eight would probably be an ideal number between six and eight. So every year they might be looking somewhere around like 70 new patients. That's what the average office grows at without doing any advertising at all. Now, 70 patients is not really a lot. It's good growth. But if you have aggressive growth goals, like a lot of our doctors do that we, that we manage some offices we work with, we'll get two or 300, five or six or 900 new patients every single year, year. Like I have this one office that we work with in British Columbia and they get about 140, 120 new patients a month. How do they handle that increase in, in patient flow? So they have, they have lots of space. There's 16 operatories. So it's. huge, huge practice. But that's a lot of growth. So they add more chairs as they need to, they may not even have them all fully equipped right they have they have their space they do have them for you they do have them all yeah they went from three offices to six or they went from a three op office to a 16 op office yeah you took them on that ride yeah we've been a client for just over a decade yeah Wow. So what would you say, Brandon, if we came up to you and said, listen, we're in Austin, Texas. We're getting seven new patients a month without doing a stitch of advertising. We have a very limited budget. Our priority here at this office is to buy technology. We're very into digital workflow. We are looking to buy a CBCT and possibly a laser. Both of those together could be quite a lot of money. So what would you... recommend to us as the priority as far as advertising? What should we be focusing on with our limited budget? The first question would be, are you looking for long-term or short-term marketing? So long-term strategy means less expensive. It means that your goals are spread out over a longer time period. That means that if we do something like search engine optimization or writing blog content or doing social media, these services do not have an immediate impact on the traffic flow or number of new patients you're going to generate, but they will be over time because it's a content game. So the more content we produce, The more people will find it, the more people find it, the more traffic, the more traffic, more leads, more leads, more patients. So it is a long term strategy. These services are less expensive, anywhere between one to two to five hundred dollars a month per service. If we went with a short term strategy, short term means you're getting patients immediately. So you want to say, hey, I want to get. you know, 10 new patients a month this month. So that's where you have to spend money to generate results in the short term. This is things like meta ads, Google ads, YouTube ads, print ads, anything that's ads related where you're paying top dollar to receive top page placement. So it depends on what your goals are. How fast do you want to get those patients and how many patients are you ultimately looking for? For some offices, does it make sense to take a hybrid approach where you do a certain percentage of your budget short term? And then a certain percentage of your budget long term. And I realize the short term is going to bring the costs up. And if you're on a tight budget, that may not fly. You can absolutely have a hybrid approach, but certain things like Google ads, YouTube ads, print ads will have specific budgets that they would need to have. So in a place like Austin, Texas, I wouldn't touch Google ads with less than a $1,500 budget because you have to think $1,500 spread over the course of 30 days is $50 a day in advertising. I want to make sure we're setting realistic goals here. So $50 a day in advertising, do you think you're going to get one patient, two patients, three patients? The average cost to generate one patient in short-term marketing is between $150 to $400 per patient. So spending $50 a day and we're expecting $3,000, it's not realistic. So we have to make sure we're setting realistic goals in terms of budget. how much money you're wanting to spend because if the budget for something like Google ads is not big enough, like if you're spending a thousand dollars or $500, it's not even worth it, right? Like you're better off spending that money on a different mode of advertising that will generate better results over a longer period of time. Something like YouTube ads as an example, you could get away with a $500 budget because on a $500 budget on YouTube, the cost per click on advertising like that is so ridiculously cheap. but it doesn't, it's not for everybody. It's not for every geographic location, right? And so something like that, if you had a $500 budget, you could easily get three or 4,000 clicks to your website a month, right? Like it's nothing compared to like Google ads. But if we went to something like social, you could again, get away with, you know, $700, $800 monthly budget. It doesn't have to be significant to draw in traffic, but just understand that people go to social media to be entertained, not to look for a dentist. We'll be right back with our guest, but first, For many years now, we've recognized that buffering local anesthetics can reduce injection pain, speed up onset, and decrease the overall volume of anesthesia needed. However, the process of buffering has always been complex, time-consuming, and expensive. Until now. Introducing BufferPro. a single-use, sterile, self-contained capsule that delivers 0.1 mils of sodium bicarbonate into a dental anesthetic cartridge, raising the solution's pH to near physiologic levels. No measuring, no mixing, and no hassle. Join the growing number of dentists introducing BufferPro into their practices. To learn more, visit septodontusa.com. And so the method in advertising is going to be different based on what your budget is. So if someone... let's just say it has a $2,000 budget, I might not say Google Ads would be the best option for you. Maybe we could do YouTube, but YouTube also requires video content. If you don't have any, the cost for a videographer could be $3,000 or $4,000 just to generate a couple of YouTube videos. So is it worth it? Maybe. And so that's where we have to kind of talk and figure it out because like you might tell me your budget. I can give you my recommendation on that budget, but ultimately it's up to you to decide on what you're comfortable spending. I can give you as many recommendations as I can to make sure that we're kind of within your ballpark of and setting proper expectations. So there's a lot going on right now regarding dentists trying to differentiate themselves into what we call subspecialties of general dentistry. And this could be sleep medicine, lasers regarding facial aesthetics and non-surgical perio, possibly clear aligners could be a subspecialty. So are you having conversations with dental practices that are looking to move into these subspecialties? And like I said, not only to differentiate themselves, but also to get more career satisfaction, to be excited about getting out of bed in the morning. How successful are you to get these dentists to be known for these types of services? That's a good question. So, you know, it's interesting as I did a seminar for the American Association of Dental Sleep Medicine last year. And so I first I'm just going to talk about sleep medicine for a second. There are quite a few people that we spoke to after that seminar. I want to make sure we're setting realistic expectations because the amount of search volume for something like that online is so low. Right. And there are medical professionals that deal with that. dentists. Like dentists, yes, are medical professionals, but I mean like physicians outside of the dental space that would also deal with that. So you have them to compete with in the hospitals and the other subspecialties within the other medical fields to deal with. And so something like that is not going to yield the results that you're looking for, even if you put a vast marketing budget attached to it. Now, if you want to target something like being the emergency doctor or dealing with extractions and wisdom teeth, yes, absolutely. You know, we get stuff like that all the time where doctors are like, I want to be known for this in my area. And so I'm actually from Toronto. And so I have this one office that we started working with about four months ago. And there's about just over 750 dental practices within the greater Toronto area. Very competitive. This one doctor we've been working with, if you type in emergency dentist Mississauga, he shows up three times on the front page. Three times, which is incredibly difficult to do within such a short period of time, but that's emergency service. While it might not necessarily be a subspecialty within dentistry like with oral facial pain or like endodontics or oral surgery, it is a... subspecialty within marketing that allows us to target emergency services. We can do the same thing if we just take an attribute about you. Let's say you want to be the female dentist in your area. So we would target things like that. or the Spanish-speaking dentist in your area, or I'm open weekends, I'm the weekend dentist. It doesn't necessarily have to be tied to a specific service, but it can be tied to an attribute of who you are. So accolades, if a woman dentist won Woman Dentist of the Year for 2026, you could work that into the advertising? Absolutely. Does that effectively help? Absolutely. You'd be surprised how many people will search for a woman dentist, just as an example, search for a woman dentist and how many people are not promoting for it who actually are women dentists. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. So let me ask you this, Brandon, how do you know that the marketing efforts that you're putting in and the dental practice is paying for is not working? I mean, I know you have metrics. I'm sure the dental practice is going to say, hey, we've been doing this for three months. We're not seeing any change in new patients. I assume this is something that could happen. Happens more often than you think, Phil. And so that again is a pretty loaded question because if we get an office that's been working with us for three, four, six, 12 months and they say, hey, Brandon, we've been working with you for a few months. We don't see the results that we're looking for. Well, so when we get down into it, we find that there is usually a disconnect between the website and their patient database. Because when a lead comes in from the website, it's the receptionist's job to deal with that lead. Most, and I'm talking like almost every single receptionist, when a web form comes in, a chatbot comes in, or a call comes in, they'll email the patient back and then delete the lead. And then that lead is gone. They are not salespeople. Your receptionists are not salespeople. So you are basically judging our marketing campaign on people who do not have the proper training to deal with leads to come into your business, which is a problem. And this is why we created our new software that tracks every single lead that has come in. So if they're not being dealt with accordingly, we'll see if your reception staff are calling the leads back, if they're actually following up with the leads, if they're answering the phone calls, calls are recorded, if they're messaging the patients back more than once. Like if a lead comes in and says, hey, I'm interested, but can you call me back at another time? And then no call back. It's like, we'll see all that. And so a lot of times that we've been finding in the last like four or five months since our software came out, it's actually not, it's not doctor marketing that's causing the problem. And that's the, that's the kiss of death for me. Before we get back to our guest, I'd like to give a huge shout out to our sponsor, Voco, the prevention pros dentist trust for products that truly make a difference like pro florid varnish. This isn't your typical thick, sticky varnish. It's thin, transparent, tastes great, it has seven flavors, and delivers the ADA-recommended 5% sodium fluoride for a strong burst of protection. VOCO's unique Procolophany formulation helps the fluoride stay in the teeth longer for extended uptake. And that's exactly what you want. And then there's Admirer Protect. VOCO's light-cured nanofill desensitizer that keeps patients' sensitivity free for up to two years. It's a great practice builder, and yes, CDT code 9911 makes billing simple. If prevention matters in your practice, join the thousands of dental offices that depend on VOCO. Visit voco.dental. That is the kiss of death. If I go to a website and there's that interface, and I fill in something and say, hey, you know, I've been having... pain with my lower left molar and I had a root canal on it could someone see me or could someone call me back to talk to me about getting an appointment as soon as possible because it's Saturday and you're closed and I don't get a call and it's Wednesday I'm done with that practice literally yeah I mean why would I want to start with a practice that can't call back a patient who's ready to be treated it's like red flag what's your thought on that exactly That's exactly correct. And that's why we introduced this new software to basically hold the reception staff accountable to their job, right? Their job is to make sure that everybody who communicates with the office is effectively communicated with. And so there's so, so much business that has been lost. And when I say so much, I'm like, I go and I had a... with another office that has a software enabled this morning and three of the receptionists were in the office with the doctor and we went through and there were 80 leads in the last three weeks that weren't even touched 80 leads. Leads. That's insane. That's insane. And these are these are people that are like, hey, I'm interested in booking an appointment. Please call me back. And then the doctor's like, what happened to this lead? They're like, oh, yeah, we called. We didn't leave a voicemail. And then there was no email communication back. And like that's like the phone. That's like running running a relay race. And you're in the sixth person is about to cross the finish line and they drop the baton. It's like you've done everything. They're paying. They're paying for these services. That's what happens. Yeah, thousands. That's what happens when a dental practice is so wrapped up with what's in front of them. They're busy doing things. There's things going on at the time in the dental practice that are prioritized over someone who's waiting to come into the practice. It's almost like the last thing you want is another patient when you're really busy. You're just like, I practiced endo for 15 years. At the end of the day, if I had an emergency come in, I'd go, oh, my gosh, you know, it was nice to see another patient, but not on Thursday afternoon at 4 o'clock. Right. So you have a solution for that, though. We don't touch the lead itself, right? We don't communicate with the lead. So our system just tracks them all to make sure that nothing is being deleted, right? And so they stay on this system until they've either been marked as a patient or they're no longer interested. And if they're not interested, they have to specify. why so this way we'll say all right out of your google campaign here's all the leads that you got here are the ones that converted the ones that didn't here are the reasons why out of your facebook campaign same thing and well we can actually specify saying you know receptionist a had a better conversion than receptionist b so we'll we can say like any any facebook lead that comes in we'll give it to receptionist a because she's better at converting versus you know google is better or receptions b is converting Google leads better. So it's actually pretty interesting, this software. But no, we don't communicate directly with the patient. We just make sure that the reception staff are held accountable when we bring a lead in. Because I've run this company for over 10 years, and I was just tired of reception staff. blaming marketing companies for their lackluster effort and so now we held our we hold our our clients reception staff accountable and there's no hiding yeah well the leads are right there it's like whose responsibility is it yeah that was my next question which you just answered was the accountability issue when you hold someone to account on the responsibility of something that the office is paying for so that's all established in that initial call that you have when you're starting the relationship with a dental practice and they're about to sign a contract with you for services, do you talk about the accountability of how important it is for someone in that practice to follow up with the services you're offering? We do. Just one other part, we don't offer contracts on anything we do. We don't offer it because for two reasons. One, If you don't like working with us, we live in a glass house. We have nothing to hide. But if you don't like working with us, I don't want to be stuck servicing you, right? Like you have the absolute freedom to go. We just need 30-day notice, right? And on the flip side, if you're also a nightmare to work with, I don't want to be stuck servicing you, right? That's a two-way street. That is a two-way street. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. We have to make sure that every lead is well accounted for, that every reception staff is effectively doing their job. I think it's fantastic that you're in a position to decide, pick and choose. It's not all about the money. You want to enjoy your life and work with people that appreciate you. Your success is for sure, in large part, dependent upon how well the office takes advantage of the leads that you create. through through your strategic advertising and web design how important is it for a dental practice to have an interface where a patient could come into that interface on off hours when the dental practice is closed and be able to book an appointment it is beneficial if you do not have a book online option right now enabled for your practice you absolutely should get one right because people will convert in a method that is convenient for them and so patients will let's say i as a business owner and as a father of two young kids and i also coach their baseball teams i don't have time from like six in the morning until like at least eight o'clock at night i'm not looking up anything so when i look up things i look up things when my kids are asleep Like most parents, I'm sure. And so I would look at advertising after those working hours. Having time after 8 o'clock at night, I know that the dental office is... closed. I'm well aware that the office is closed, just like I'm well aware that the retail office would be closed. However, retail has the ability for me to be able to buy things online. Dental offices don't have that, but what dental offices do have is the ability to book online. So it's very convenient to make sure that you have conversion methods. A conversion method is like a click to call now button, a web form, a chatbot, a book online. You have conversion methods enabled on your website because the the person will convert in a method that is convenient for them. So if I could just go on your website, click book online, it's like, okay, I need to book this appointment for this child at this day on this time. Right. And in a time that's convenient for me. And what about very, very important. Right. And if another dentist doesn't have that, if they're shopping around and like you said, you're a busy father of two and you coach baseball and whatever, and you need to do this after hours. And that one particular dentist that you thought would be convenient to go to doesn't have that option on their website. You'll find another dentist that does. Yeah, usually. So what's interesting is that what we find most patients, what they'll do is actually they'll type in like a dentist near me if they need a dentist. They'll look up four to five. They'll actually open up four to five different websites within their local area. And then they'll look at one. They're like, no, I don't like this vibe. Delete. Next one. Yeah, I don't like their face. Delete. They'll not contact you for the most ridiculous reasons. And so if there's a convert, let's say somebody likes you and there's no way for you to convert, delete. They're going to keep going on to the next one. And so it's very important to make sure that you have conversion methods available. But the second that lead comes in, call them. The second you have it available is to get them on the phone because if you don't call them back, they're just going to go to the next one. So most dentists that reach out to you, Brandon, most likely have a website. So I assume that you evaluate that website as part of the initial discussions on what services are needed and you make recommendations like, hey, the vibe of your site is great. Maybe it needs a little bit of improvement. You should have some information about emergency dentistry and booking appointments and so forth. Is that all part of the services that you offer once the practice agrees to use doctor marketing? Absolutely. They don't even have to actually sign up for our services. So we will give an unbiased, as unbiased as we can be, an unbiased opinion on what we feel like if we're just talking website and not marketing. Because the website is the first initial piece to this. We will give them an unbiased opinion on... of the actual site itself you know finding flaws in the design inconsistencies duplicate content things that could be improved formatting structure like color scheme like one out of there's about 200 things that Google looks at one of those things is even font color right if the font color is off you're gonna get dinged for optimization points like it's crazy and so we'll give you a synopsis of what we would think would be a in order to change. You can take that to your existing web developer and they can take it from there if you feel that they are competent to be able to do that. Out of all the websites that we deal with, I'd say only 2% have been up to the standard of doctor marketing. And unfortunately, those 2% did not come from one specific company. It's like, we'll get one website from one company that was great, and then another website from another company that was great. But if you look at any of the other websites that those companies have designed, it's like, you did it right here. Why couldn't you do it right across all these other guys, right? So as part of your services with marketing and advertising, you do website work, website development. So we do offer websites that we can develop for you that would be a complete change from what you currently have, or we can take over the existing site you have, recreate the site, and bring it into the modern era, meaning that we can make it look 95% what it looks like right now, but we would fix formatting issues, structural problems, color scheme issues, content flow, spelling mistakes, grammar, all those fun things. And so we're actually in the process of doing that for like five other offices. right now across North America. And so their websites just look absolutely amazing now. So what do you say to a dentist who's talking to you about your services, but they bring up the fact that they've shopped around a bit and your competitors are saying that they could be placed very high on SEO. So if a prospective patient is searching for emergency dentistry, they'll show up on top. Veneers, they're on top. Whitening, on top, and so forth and so on. What do you say to that? I can give you an analogy. I had orthognathic surgery, personally, me, I have. And so I had a class two, and so my upper jaw was basically split in two to widen it, and my lower jaw was repositioned and brought forward. When I was going through this whole process, the orthodontist, general dentist, and the oral surgeon said there is no guarantees that I will receive my nerve, that I will get all my nerve. uh nerves back and so here we are seven years after the surgery and i have no feeling in my chin under my tongue and some of my front teeth zero zero feeling it's completely gone uh so even specialists like the oral surgeon and the orthodontist there's no guarantees of anything in any industry right and so somebody that says that they're going to guarantee it or somebody that says oh i'm the best we'll get it done don't be sold on those guys Right. You're a smart person. Use your judgment. Right. Like you might not necessarily be a business savvy person. But you are an intelligent person. Otherwise, you wouldn't have graduated from dental school. So I would say use your judgment. If you feel uneasy because these people are making you feel, oh, oh, so special. We're going to do this and that and the other. I'm telling you right now, I've been in the industry for a long time. I've flown out to Google headquarters to see how they do things firsthand. No one can guarantee anything. What you're saying, Brandon, makes total sense. But it wasn't that long ago that companies. were able to game the system. They figured out ways to fool Google and get sites that had limited credibility really high up on SEO. And when you do searches, you'll see those sites there. But Google's got a lot smarter. Their algorithms have changed. The days of gaming the system to fool the search engines are pretty much over for the most part, although there's always new tricks. Absolutely. And so Google tells you, as an example, keywords on the back end of a website. no longer viable right uh the domain name itself has zero impact on your optimization right keyword stuffing that keyword stuffing means you're putting content on the actual back end of a website let's say you put it in black text and then you put a black filter over it so you can't even see any of the words google hates that and so they got rid of all that stuff and so other things like the color of the text or the colors of the images or the alt text which is like text of over a picture that explain what the picture is these are all things that google will consider the size of the headers right like these are all how fast a website loads if it's mobile friendly so what do you think the top five things are that google prioritizes as far as placing your website based on a search uh there are about 200 things that google considers to be important uh out of the top 20 content uh from a video is very important content from a blog is very important social media reviews very important how fast the website loads if you have an accessibility feature so an accessibility features for people with disabilities so they can use your site very important a chatbot feature is is important because it's a conversion tool so the more people convert the higher you get ranked. Having engaging widgets on your website. So we built out a website for someone for before and after pictures. So you have this little slider that can slide the image before and after. And so the more they engage with it, the higher you get ranked, right? And so we add a few of those throughout the site. And so the longer they stay on your site, the more you're playing this game too. You're part of this whole thing. This whole racket. Yeah. And so we try to factor in as many of these pieces as we possibly can. Google makes changes all the time. And so we try to keep up. So what about traffic? I assume that's kind of a positive feedback. The more traffic you have, the better off you'll show up on the page based on the search results. Yeah. So that's the popularity index. So that's one of the top 20 items, but there are other factors that are considered important in there as well. Like, yes, you might have a million people, but are those million people clicking on multiple pages? Are those million people clicking on things? Are they submitting their contact information? How long are they staying for? So while traffic is important, they have to do all these other things in order for those points to actually count. And that can apply to a dental practice website. That's what you do. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Phenomenal stuff. I mean, There's no way, in my opinion, a dentist who has so many things on his or her plate can master that skill, what you're doing. There are other companies out there. I'm not here just to promote Dr. Marketing, although I know you speak at a lot of major events and you have great credibility. And you've certainly, it's not your first rodeo. You've been doing this a long time. If you have any questions, just feel free to reach out anytime. We're happy to help. Even if you don't end up becoming a client, if there's anything we can do to help. And tell us your website. drmarketing.io. drmarketing.io. Excellent. All right, Brandon, another great discussion. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks, Phill, for having me.